Soon there will be a new IKEA. Bigger. And elsewhere.

I used to feel guilty about being a classist snob. But then I thought: "I WORK at this. And you people SUCK." Then I didn't feel guilty at all.

Are you asking why the Northeast is that way, or why PEOPLE are that way?

I'm observing that the NorthEast IS that way-- I'm just wondering how it GOT that way. :)

Entropy and inertia. It was a cheap place to build during the boom of the late seventies, early eighties, and so stuff was built there cheaply. Those that could afford to live in better places didn't live there. Those that did live in the cheap housing there either improved their station in life and moved on or they didn't, and stayed. The more of the 'less motivated' type that stayed, the less value the surrounding property had. The less value the surrounding property had, the less it was available for. Those that earned less could afford those places, so they moved in. It became a spiral of suckitude. Unfortunately there are some people living in that neighborhood who are NOT 'less motivated' but are staying because that's what they own and they're reluctant to give it up. People like Maire's parents and my Aunt and Uncle. They are, sadly, becoming a rapidly diminishing minority.

As Rook mentions, why a city has low-rent areas is well understood. Poor people don't have the money to live in rich neighbourhoods. And Rich people don't want to move into poor neighbourhoods. Feedback (through the mechanism of property values) separates the rich from the poor. But why the north east? Why not somewhere else?

1) Oil refineries/Industrial parks. Really, who wants to live next to one of these. My brother tells me that when the Hub Oil refinery blew up a few years ago, his property value went up 10K overnight (he lived in Penbrooke at the time).

2) The Airport. Another property value clobbering behemoth.

3) The prairie. It's flat and treeless, unlike the west end which is in the foothills. In Dalhousie (where I am currently staying), you can see about a quarter of the city, including a big chunk of the river valley to the south and nose hill to the north. Hills give variety and character which lift property values. In Marlborough, all you can see is your neighbour's houses, which are exactly like your own. Ugh. Trees are also plentiful in along the river, and given the city's climate, greatly appreciated.

So lets build two neighbourhoods. The first is in a hilly, treed area surrounded by nice neighbourhoods with access to decent shopping and transit. The second will be on a flat expanse of prairie across a major street from heavy industry that's also on an airport approach. Guess which one gets the 1/4-1/2 million dollar houses and guess which one gets the 100-150K houses. Which neighbourhood gets the doctors, lawyers, executives and engineers, Which one gets the people who live pay check to pay check.

And once it starts it escalates. There is a theory of urban development that says you should have pockets of employment and housing spread throughout the city, with neighbourhoods providing housing for a variety of social levels. This cuts down on transportation costs and crime levels. Calgary has never tested this theory.

So geography starts it and economics makes it worse. There you go, why the south and west are nicer than the east.

Which is not to say that the NE is the only crappy part of town.

In the NW, Bowness/Montgomery are kinda scummy. Mostly the parts near "downtown Bowness", i.e. near the Bowness Hotel (or the Bo' Ho' as it's been called). It's actually really nice the closer you get to Bowness park.

In the South, Spruce Cliff/Shaganappi (the neighbourhood south of Westbrook mall) have the look of a demilitarized zone.

Finally, there's Forest Lawn in the SE. Of course there isn't really a border between Forest Lawn and "the north east", it seems to be one big hole starting at McKnight and going south to Peigan trail.

I think the bunch of you are spoiled. Spoiled by living in an isolationist city where the next major center is a three hour drive north (if you rush the speed limit). Visit the suburbs of Toronto if you really want to be depressed and downtrodden. The NE of Calgary is nothing to sneeze at by comparison.

You have a small downtown core with a lot of glassed-in buildings, but not a lot of park space or attractive architecture. Your southern area (Douglasdale, etc) is full of rich snobs who tend to be in upper management or found a niche for themselves and thus are grasping onto their positions with all claws out, hoping that some young buck from the University won't glide in and take their jobs and lifestyles. Your "old rich", who really aren't that old (maybe 1 generation back) live in Mount Royal. Your NW has some "suburbanite" areas, but there's very little in the way of shopping. The NE...has shopping centers, entertainment, and "normal" housing. Yes. I said "normal". In comparison to what? In comparison to the rest of the freakin' city.

If you're going to buy a starter home, start looking at the NE. That is, if you're a normal person with a normal income (this means you don't have parents reinforcing your income with regular infusions of cash, and you didn't somehow luck into a 50K+/year job). If you're buying a house, unless you don't blink twice at a 300K mortgage, you're looking at the NE. There are some nice houses there, and in some neighbourhoods, you have older folks who have been living there for years. That is, until all the younger people moved out and took their money elsewhere. Yes, there's a lot of low-rent housing, and it will naturally attract immigrants and very young parents. Why? Well, the prices are exorbitant in every other quadrant of the freakin' city, and face it...the guy who cleans up the mess you left at the office, vacuums the floors, and wipes down your desk makes LESS than you do. He has to have a place to live. Are you going to build a low-rent neighbourhood in the SE and actually charge what it's worth so that this guy can actually save a few dollars by the end of the day, or are you going to blithely go on bitching about the hole the NE is over your golf game with your buddies? Didn't think so.
Yes, folks, those retail workers who serve you at Futureshop, the people who make sure Costco has your favourite brand of toilet paper (real cheap!), the people who make sure that there's a super-tall latte in your hand when you gingerly park your ass on a mall bench...they likely live in the NE. Ditto for the manager of the local movie theatre or Major Video Store where you go to get your entertainment for the evening. We can't all afford expensive condos and time-shares, and new cars. Some of us are keeping our 10 to 20 year old cars together with duct tape and wishes for just. one. more. day. please!

And if you think that the NE of Calgary is bad, try going to a city where there are REAL suburbs. Ottawa. Toronto. Vancouver. Take more than a week's trip...live there for a year or two. Or ten. Then you'll REALLY see the distinction between the haves and have nots. Hell...go to Toronto and get your ass off Queen and Yonge. Go west past Bathurst, and you'll see an entirely different world with condoms and needles in the gutters. You think the pop-tarts at Sunridge Mall are bad? They're nothing in comparison to the sweet young things dying in Parkdale (a section of Toronto). Hell...I've seen Pop Tarts in the NW who put the girls in the NE to shame. Their clothes are richer, sure, but the guts hanging over those hip-huggers are a lot bigger. Must be the wealthier lifestyle.

Hmmm... well.... Interesting comments so far about our fair city. You know, I've lived in just about every neighbourhood in this city, in every quadrant. All have their ups and downs or a combination of both. There hasn't been a place yet that I haven't hated living in. I've been uncomfortable in a few areas as I got to know the neighbourhood and I did see my fair share of juvinile deliquents and garbage pickers and homeless on my front steps. No matter where you go you will find something along those lines. And there are also some really beautiful spots within Malbourough, Temple, Hunterhorn... aka.. the NE. You just gotta get off of the main drags to see them :) Never judge an area by it's 'main drag' :) And sure Bowness has it's less pretty areas but wow, if you go looking there are some really beautiful places within the burb.

I grew up in Ontario and I know what Toronto is like also. And saying that I have to say that I love this city of ours. It really is alot cleaner than anywhere else I've been in my travels, the people are friendlier and the city is really easy to get around in. We really have nothing to complain about where Calgary is concerned.

Being as I said all that I have I have to say that I love the NW the best. I just like the location and the proximity to the mountains. And there are reasonably priced starter homes in the NW too. Tony and I found one and we worked hard to get it.

So ... this city in my opinion is a paradise. Where else can you find the prairies, the mountains, all the wonderful parks and places to go and see but here in Calgary?

MrsACK

Wow. Obviously touched a nerve with Maire.

What fantastic generalizations you make, too, Maire. Mind you, your post is about as NE-centric as I'm sure you believe my post to be NW-centric; but CAN YOU REFUTE IT, is my question.

Everything I said is direct observation, coupled with emotional impressions. And yes, I have lived in other cities. "Real" suburbs, y'say? Well, I'll tell you what, Mairey Dear-- if I were LIVING in Toronto, I'd be WRITING about Toronto. Kay sweetie?

Anyway, yes, I'm sure there are decent people living in the NE. It's just that the negative aspects are far more prevalent in the NE than any other quadrant; and before you go taking a "we" attitude to the poor, downtrodden NE people I've "slammed" (by the tone of your response, anyway) in the NE, I'd like to point out to the readers that although Maire lived with her parents in the NE until recently, she's lived in the NW for the past year-- and recently moved to another apartment in the NW.

Glad to see you embracing other quadrants, Maire. Perhaps you'll remember that before getting all defensive about the "poor slobs who are just trying to keep their cars together" in the NE.

As for working in Future Shop? PUH-LEEZE. We wouldn't let NORTHEAST people work in THAT store. DECENT people shop there.

M

Huh. As someone who spent many years living in Calgary and who now lives in Edmonton it is my opinion that you are misinformed. We have industrial areas here, but they just can't compare to NE Calgary in terms of nastiness.

There's only one area that you really need to worry about getting shot in, and that's Mill Woods. Even so, it's not a bad looking neighbourhood for the most part.

Traffic? You just can't compare Edmonton and Calgary. Edmonton rush hour traffic is an absolute pleasure compared to Calgary (much less of it).

The parks here? Wonderful. The people? More so. Edmonton is much friendlier and less uptight than Calgary. I was shocked by the difference when I first moved here.

Edmonton - don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

:-p~~~~

M:

Your comments about the North East of Calgary are extremely offensive. They contain hints of racism and ridiculous stereotypes about the area. I guess your small-mindedness shouldn't be surprising when one considers the fact that you shop at IKEA, the Wal-Mart of home furnishings.

If the North East stands for one thing, it surely must be diversity. It's a wonderfully diverse place with people from all over the world calling it home. People are friendly and always helpful. The women don't take on the "plump, pinched look" that you describe If anything, many of them are among the most beautiful women in the city.

The last time I checked the "wasteland with fast food and strip malls" that you allude to in your pathetic comments is not unique to the North East. The entire city is a neverending concrete jungle. Have you been downtown yet? Every wandered over to the North West? What about Macleod Trail? Look around you!

The feelings that you get from the North East ("depression, anger, lack of grace, underlying depression") probably more aptly describe yourself. They certaintly don't describe the North East that I know. Contrary to what you believe ("it's there"), these impressions are your own.

In any event, the North East is a great place to be. The next time you go to your conformist "Enchanted Swedish Castle" maybe you should open not only your eyes but also your mind.

J

Fascinating, J.

I certainly uphold your right to differ with me-- but you most certainly can't deny me my right to my observations. If I were in fact "small minded," I wouldn't have NOTICED these things about the Northeast that made me write this blog.

These are observations, and IKEA is used as a contrast to demarcate (a word which here means "To draw a clear line between") an average crowd vs. the North East Wal-Mart crowd scant meters away.

"The North East is a great place to be" is subjective, and you state it in an unfounded and utterly unempirical way. At least I had to good grace to mention that my observations were just that.

And as for being racist, I included immigrants as a possible socioeconomic reason, and stated quite plainly that I had no idea whether it was even relevant.

You feel attacked? Well, I guess you'd better move to a better end of town then.

M

Your end of the town probably stinks too. And I'm not talking about where you live.

Good one, W.

Except if it's my end of the town, but you're not talking about where I live, then you're not talking about anything. Grammatically, anyway.

M

BOO HOO. I'm queen of the grammatical world. I didn't know she was talking about my stinky ass because she wasn't grammatically correct.

I don't like your grammer either.

It's grammar, W. Just FYI.